The Fully Involved Podcast: Firefighting Experts Share Tactics and Opinions

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:08:05 Speaker 2 the past we were taught, don’t flow water into that. You’re going to something bad is going to happen. So you just got to kind of take it and get to the bottom of the stairs.
00:00:08:07 – 00:00:10:07 Speaker 2 I think that’s still the biggest misconception.
00:00:10:07 – 00:00:15:24 Speaker 2 if we’re going to go into a basement and we have to go down those stairs, we need to be flowing down the stairs while we’re going.
00:00:15:24 – 00:00:25:04 Unknown Our guest today is Jesse Marcotte, one of the top voices in metro Detroit and the United States. He’s training chief of Northville Township Fire
00:00:25:04 – 00:00:32:07 Unknown Serves on the Retraining Advisory Committee and is on the ice FSI Board of Directors.
00:00:32:07 – 00:00:44:28 Unknown This episode is for firefighters who want to get some of Jesse’s expert knowledge on basement fire tactics, building construction types, nozzle stream technique, and how to get better culture at your department.
00:00:44:28 – 00:00:47:26 Unknown Grab a beverage and a notepad and let’s buckle up.
00:00:48:09 – 00:00:53:15 Unknown To fight.
00:00:53:15 – 00:01:03:16 Speaker 1 All right, well, I’ve been really looking forward to this one. Since we connected, we got Jesse Marcotte from Northville, Michigan Fire Department, and you wear a lot of different hats. Jesse, first of all, thank you for coming on.
00:01:03:18 – 00:01:06:08 Speaker 2 Thanks for having me. I think that’s fantastic. So I appreciate it.
00:01:06:08 – 00:01:26:01 Speaker 2 my career job is as a training chief in Metro Detroit and, an organization I’ve been at now for almost 23 years, which is crazy, has gone by so fast. But in addition to that, I’ve had a lot of really cool opportunities to make some really good friends and learn a lot of important lessons. One of those, one of those other hats is through the International Society of Fire Service Instructors.
00:01:26:04 – 00:01:48:06 Speaker 2 So is FSI. And, I set aside as a really neat group because you talk about, well, just their mission statement inspiring, supporting, elevating fire service instructors. So with them, I’ve been able to teach kind of coast to coast, north south, east west variety of different topics. And it’s a fantastic organization. And I currently serve as the second vice president of FSI.
00:01:48:06 – 00:02:14:29 Speaker 2 So that’s a that’s a fun one. Another organization, that I’m really, like, really thrilled and humbled to be a part of is FSI right. So that’s, Underwriters Laboratories fire safety research Institute. So that’s a really big one. That was kind of a lifelong mission there to get some little role there. So in addition to getting the coffee and I work remote, so it’s probably cold coffee by the time it gets there.
00:02:14:29 – 00:02:29:28 Speaker 2 But I’m in the education and training department there as an education training coordinator. So fantastic team a joke. It’s like a fellowship without the degree. I’m not getting the degree, but I’m getting all these fantastic lessons that I can hopefully share, you know, on things like this today.
00:02:29:28 – 00:02:30:12 Speaker 1 So
00:02:30:12 – 00:02:33:21 Speaker 1 that what were you teaching on here at, Yes.
00:02:33:23 – 00:02:55:10 Speaker 2 So let me ask you, this year, I taught a class, Monday morning for our workshop on probationary firefighter training programs, setting and raising the bar. And the concept there is in the fire service, we may wear many different hats, whether it’s, you know, as a firefighter or a company officer, chief officer, fire prevention training, there’s so many different hats to wear, but we all start the same way.
00:02:55:10 – 00:03:10:13 Speaker 2 And that’s as a probationary firefighter. So if we can focus in on the probationary firefighter training programs, which hits all the skills including culture, leadership and everything else, then we set people up for success. And that’s our goal in that program.
00:03:10:16 – 00:03:15:23 Speaker 1 What’s the biggest misconception out there about firefighter culture building?
00:03:15:25 – 00:03:38:02 Speaker 2 I think one of the misconceptions is that you should just let it happen and let it, you know, just happen organically. But that’s hard. If we’re just trying to happen, our culture happen organically. Look at all the directions that could go. So the concept of culture is deliberate. That’s a big one that we really emphasize organizationally. And, we have some excellent leaders in our organization that focus on culture.
00:03:38:09 – 00:03:54:14 Speaker 2 In fact, one of them covered that segment during the class the other day. And, I think that would be it is I would I would try to maintain positive control of the culture in terms of making sure it’s representative of what the group wants, but identifying what it is and where it needs to go. So I think that would be a big takeaway on that.
00:03:54:14 – 00:03:56:06 Speaker 2 On on that in.
00:03:56:08 – 00:04:05:12 Speaker 1 I know, you know, Prime Pontiac is a big fan of you. I said, you know, hey, we got Justin Marcotte coming on the show. What should I talk to him about? He was like cultural.
00:04:05:15 – 00:04:22:18 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, we could talk about culture all day. I can simplify it. Actually, we have a thing, through our department called the Whole Person Initiative. So we want you to be, you know, a good person on and off duty is the concept. And we’ve really simplified it after working on it for several years. And it’s it’s really the three C model.
00:04:22:18 – 00:04:26:21 Speaker 2 So we talk about culture, but we put culture with character
00:04:26:21 – 00:04:47:21 Speaker 2 competency and conditioning. So everything we do fits into one of those three categories, with character being the foundation of that. So if you think of it as a triangle, very strong geometric shape, character in the bottom, competency, stuff like this that we’re talking about today. And then we have the conditioning side, which also can blend into competency going out and doing training, getting a good sweat.
00:04:47:24 – 00:04:56:05 Speaker 2 Just physical fitness at the fire station, behavioral health. But that’s our several year culture journey summarized in the 30s.

00:04:56:07 – 00:05:20:07 Speaker 1 So that was incredible. Yeah. Very precise. So I’d love to pick your brain type. Yes. Good experience. And you understand it’s kind of the the practical side of that. And also you have a grasp of kind of a bit more intellectual side of it. So what are we through? Yeah. Walk me through a analyzing a basement fire. You roll up, you kind of hear, you know, what’s going on, you see.
00:05:20:07 – 00:05:23:08 Speaker 1 Okay, I’m dealing with a basement fire.
00:05:23:10 – 00:05:50:08 Speaker 2 Yes. Basement fires are important to me for several reasons. In 2006, we had a near miss event in our department, and I happened to be there for that. In fact, I feel like a lot of those decisions that didn’t make it a super great, incident were really my fault because I didn’t know better at the time because I looked at a basement fire, kind of as any other fire, if you will, and did not have a healthy appreciation for some other things that really play into that, building construction.
00:05:50:08 – 00:06:08:06 Speaker 2 And by building construction, I mean, what type of basement is it, a walkout basement, an egress basement, those sorts of things. And then fire dynamics wise, I, I really believed at that time that the coolest place would be at the bottom of the stairs, and you just had to be uncomfortable and get to the bottom. So we talked about tactics.
00:06:08:06 – 00:06:48:09 Speaker 2 Flowing water wasn’t my goal. I didn’t, you know, all those old kind of myths of the fire service, like, don’t upset the thermal layers or can’t flow water and smoke. So those things really wasn’t that I tried to be wrong. It was that that was where the fire service was at that time. So I think a basement fires, it’s not just the conditions presenting, but when we talk about the importance of seeing as many sides of the building as we can, that is one of the first key factors, because basements are basically classified in the three categories, like if you read the, the understanding of fighting basement Fires technical report from FSRI.
00:06:48:12 – 00:07:13:10 Speaker 2 The three basement types that they use are no exterior access, limited exterior access and full exterior access. So then when we talk about that, fire wise people are like, what does that mean? What is, what is. So the way we identify that back in our recipes and our department is we have a standard basement, little windows that you would expect to see, kind of that standard house in the Midwest of the basement.
00:07:13:12 – 00:07:39:16 Speaker 2 Then we have egress style basements, which have larger style windows. We quantify that tactically by saying if it’s a window big enough for a firefighter to fit out of, that would be an egress window in our system, meaning limited exterior access. And then full exterior access. We just classify those as walkout basements. So if there is a door of some sort there, that’s how we’re referring to that.
00:07:39:19 – 00:08:02:15 Speaker 2 And the reason it matters so much is it’s not just at the fires in the basement, it’s what’s going to happen. So a very lots of modern fires are ventilation limited. So in those basements where you have those large openings, those big doors, big windows, if there’s a failure of that window, whether we did it or the fire itself did it, we have the potential for a rapid change in ventilation.
00:08:02:15 – 00:08:25:06 Speaker 2 So that limited, that that fire that’s in the vent, limited phase now could get all that oxygen it needs. And we could see a big change in fire conditions inside. Worst case would be that that happens below grade while the crews coming in on that first floor. So that’s a there’s a lot to it. And it at the end of the day it’s really actually quite simple.
00:08:25:06 – 00:08:27:18 Unknown on my home department, we had a situation where
00:08:27:18 – 00:08:31:23 Unknown We were set up at the street level because that’s closest we could get to the building.
00:08:31:23 – 00:08:34:02 Unknown The deck couldn’t get under the eave,
00:08:34:02 – 00:08:37:06 Unknown and we didn’t have a ground monitor on the on the vehicle that day.
00:08:37:06 – 00:08:40:16 Unknown So we had to do it with handling operations and we struggled.
00:08:40:16 – 00:08:43:27 Unknown Not having the right tool for the right job. It’s that simple.
00:08:43:27 – 00:08:45:14 Unknown I’m Paul neely, a task force tips.
00:08:45:14 – 00:08:47:16 Unknown I’d like to talk to you today about the BlitzFire.
00:08:47:16 – 00:08:51:19 Unknown You know, if you don’t have that low attack angle, a lot of times you can’t make the front of the building.
00:08:51:19 – 00:08:58:19 Unknown if your monitor won’t go down to ten degrees, you can’t get in the front door, you can’t get in the front windows, you can’t get in the front garage door.

00:09:08:22 – 00:09:08:07 Speaker 1 So so okay so what next step suit. So you walk in you’re starting to have that threat of just building a ton of fire.
00:09:08:10 – 00:09:29:28 Speaker 2 Yeah. So one thing that we really try to push is to initiate the fire attack on the level the fire is on. So in the past there was a lot of, you know, again, I think we just didn’t fully understand because we didn’t have the research that we have now. But the concept in the past was if you flow water from the outside to the inside, we’re going to push push the fire, so to speak.
00:09:30:00 – 00:09:52:03 Speaker 2 And what we know now is stream tight and nozzle patterns, that there’s a right way of doing things. And so a big part of this is exterior fire control from next year to the interior. We want to be, as close as safely possible. We want that I tell people the three S’s all the time. We want it straight, number one.
00:09:52:05 – 00:10:20:19 Speaker 2 So whether it’s a smoothbore or a, a combination nozzle, it needs to be a solid or straight stream. So straight. Steep. So we want that line, very vertical. So it’s going across the the ceiling and cooling the surfaces. So that’s again, you know, a lot of people don’t even know. Obviously you guys do. But how a how a fire, how a nozzle on the American Fire Service is designed to work so steep, straight and, and steady.
00:10:20:26 – 00:10:38:10 Speaker 2 So we’re not trying to whip that nozzle around. We’re trying to to coat and cool the surfaces, get the water where it needs to go, and then that helps us either reset that fire to a point where we can find another means of getting in there, or now we can worry about getting the the water on the fuel package or on the base fuels.
00:10:38:10 – 00:11:01:01 Speaker 2 But the, the the technique for it is, is important. It can be a little bit more interesting in a basement fire scenario. Yeah. But the the real key is that’s why we need to do the three 60s when possible. So once we see that or once we suspect and we can see it on the alpha side or, on the front of the building with our thermal imaging cameras, with a good scan, thermal size up.
00:11:01:04 – 00:11:22:00 Speaker 2 We could also see it obviously, by walking around and visualizing the fire conditions. So part of that is to knowing have to battle. As G.I. Joe said, once we know then it’s, it’s where do we go kind of thing. So once we make that that notification over the radio that sets off whatever the cues are in those different organizations.
00:11:22:03 – 00:11:40:28 Speaker 2 But but the best way to do it is to initiate the attack on the level the fire’s on. And so when we have the opportunity to flow water through that window into that basement, it has a profound effect, because it’s it’s not just that fire compartment, it’s where are all those toxic and thermal products going in that structure.
00:11:40:28 – 00:11:50:25 Speaker 2 So the people on the first floor, the people on the second floor. So the quicker we can put water where it needs to go, right time, right place, better off, everybody’s going to be.
00:11:50:28 – 00:11:57:04 Speaker 1 And what’s another misunderstanding you feeling in the fire service that you’re passionate about when it comes to your basement fires?
00:11:57:07 – 00:12:14:29 Speaker 2 So I think in those scenarios where we do have to go down the stairs, and maybe it is that basement scenario where there is no exterior access. So standard basement, we had a fire down there and and this is the scenario maybe where, where the organization decides, all in all, this is going to be what we’re going to do.
00:12:15:01 – 00:12:38:04 Speaker 2 So one of the things that you hear a lot in the fire service today, flow path. Right? 20 years ago you didn’t hear flow path as commonly. Now you see it all over the place. So that flow path is is really a combination of all the things that are occurring in that fire. So the fires over here, we have an area of high pressure, and it’s always moving from high pressure to low pressure.
00:12:38:07 – 00:12:57:12 Speaker 2 So if you think about that, when we open the front door, we’ve just created a pretty significant area of low pressure. Right. So we have a high pressure in the basement flowing up those stairs into the area of low pressure. In that we have a thing called convective flow, which is really the the part that we can visualize of the flow path.
00:12:57:12 – 00:13:18:16 Speaker 2 Besides the smoke that we’re seeing, it’s it’s kind of the thermal end of that. So we’re seeing the convective heat transfer through the camera. We’re feeling it through our gear. Right. But that convective flow, that’s where in the past we were taught, don’t flow water into that. You’re going to something bad is going to happen. So you just got to kind of take it and get to the bottom of the stairs.
00:13:18:18 – 00:13:27:29 Speaker 2 I think that’s still the biggest misconception. If we are going to flow water, if we’re going to go into a basement and we have to go down those stairs, we need to be flowing down the stairs while we’re going.
00:13:28:01 – 00:13:32:24 Speaker 1 Okay. So you need to get it on there as quick as possible. Yes.
00:13:32:27 – 00:13:52:22 Speaker 2 So at the top of the stairs in the studies, the the speed of that convective flow, those convective currents, we’re going 10 to 15mph at the top of those stairs. So if you think about it moving at you that quick, that’s a that’s a fair amount of energy. Those temperatures at the top of the stairs, we’re closer to, you know, 1300 degrees.
00:13:52:24 – 00:14:11:28 Speaker 2 So you have it. It’s hot, it’s heavy and it’s moving fast. So if we don’t do anything with it, the firefighter in thermal environments, our gear or not is not made for that. So the quicker we can coat and cool those surfaces going down, seal off the flow past, push that back to where it’s going, the better our attack is going to be.
00:14:11:28 – 00:14:32:18 Speaker 2 And again, whether we’re tough enough to take it or not, if we’re trying to have a good impact on on the civilians that can be in that structure, maybe there’s a search occurring at the same time the the, obviously the average civilian doesn’t have their own set of fire gear sitting next to their bed. So we want to protect that environment as quickly as reasonably possible.
00:14:32:20 – 00:14:45:24 Speaker 2 So flowing in and moving into that convective flow is is in the exhaust of the flow path. Essentially. That is something that we could and should be doing versus we should never be doing.
00:14:45:26 – 00:14:55:19 Speaker 1 You personally, do you have a preference if you do have to go down those basement steps between, you know, a nozzle in a straight stream versus a smooth or given.
00:14:55:22 – 00:15:17:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. So that’s a great question. And here’s what we know. They’re both fantastic options, both nozzles. But what we also know is when we’re when we’re making a push, so to speak, whether that’s down a hallway, whether it’s down the stairs, both should be on straight stream. So whether it’s the solid stream of the smoothbore or the straight stream of of a combination nozzle.
00:15:17:14 – 00:15:39:22 Speaker 2 Also with that, if you’re not using a, you know, an automatic nozzle as an example, then that smoothbore or that selectable nozzle nozzle has to be all the way open. We don’t want turbulence in the flow, turbulence in trans air, and more importantly, due to droplet size doesn’t cool the surfaces. So we need straight streams or or solid streams.
00:15:39:25 – 00:15:57:25 Speaker 2 I personally don’t really have a preference. It’s back to what’s on the end of that line. So I know we have in our department, but it might not be the same at your department that we go do training at, or it might not be the same on a scene that we go to with a neighboring department. So we don’t have the option of screwing it off and putting a new one on real quick.
00:15:57:27 – 00:16:02:07 Speaker 2 They both work. Excellent. It just has to. You just have to know how to use it.

00:16:02:09 – 00:16:21:01 Speaker 1 Well that’s awesome. Pearls of wisdom. I’ve, I also love to pick your brain about building, what I would love to tap into kind of your experience. What’s a time in your career where you encountered a particularly tricky building?
00:16:21:03 – 00:16:40:12 Speaker 2 Yeah, so there’s been a couple times. One was back to that basement fire. And was that lightweight construction or not? And is that why that floor ended up collapsing or and so that was one end of it. The other end of it was for 15 years I was on a, I was on our urban search and rescue team and obviously a big a big part of that is structural collapse.
00:16:40:14 – 00:17:03:12 Speaker 2 So that’s an area that I really enjoyed learning more about because went back to building construction, which is one of my one of the things I really liked. So we had a structural collapse of a commercial building due to a gas explosion. And in the in that if you think of it as a strip mall, we’re several types of different building constructions, in terms of are these load bearing walls where our where do we.
00:17:03:12 – 00:17:15:15 Speaker 2 Sure. So it’s not just don’t assuring system in there for the sake of it. We have to be shoring up the right part of the structure for that to make sense, for that to work. So that would that was a tricky one. That was a complex one.
00:17:15:17 – 00:17:20:14 Speaker 1 What’s another misconception out there about building construction?
00:17:20:17 – 00:17:44:19 Speaker 2 I think with building construction in general? I think one of the, the Mrs. is is understanding the, the actual five building types or the five classifications, you know, from type one to type five and what that means for us. And then furthermore, I think the biggest miss is correlating the effects of the fire on the structure based on is that type one, two, three, 4 or 5.
00:17:44:25 – 00:17:51:29 Speaker 2 So we have to type both. It can’t be just one or the other. It has to be the relationship in my mind of both of those things.
00:17:52:02 – 00:17:59:28 Speaker 1 How does your strategy change between those two building types? Thank you. Yeah. But yeah, just give me the ABCs.
00:17:59:28 – 00:18:25:20 Speaker 2 So yeah, quick ABCs. I tell people to think about this as a scale of combustible because that’s really what it is. So if it’s on the UN, if it’s a one that is, it’s so noncombustible that it’s called fire resistant. Right? All the structural members are fire rated. They’re protected. So we’d find those, you know, in, high rise buildings and parking structures, hospitals.
00:18:25:26 – 00:18:48:19 Speaker 2 So very strong structurally, type five would be the most combustible. Right? So type five, is our wood frame building construction. So a lot of our houses, you see it now in a lot of hotels and schools. So in, in the middle of that. So we have all wood products on the, on the five end and we have, you know, protected steel and concrete on the one.
00:18:48:22 – 00:19:17:26 Speaker 2 So in the middle is type three like our main street USA. And that has a mixture of products. So we have we have combustible materials to hold the roof up or the floors. And then we have our masonry noncombustible products to hold the walls up. So I think if we can understand that a little bit, that really helps us in when we talk about nozzle application, how we flow water, where we flow water, then each one of those has, you know, kind of its own unique thing.
00:19:17:28 – 00:19:40:22 Speaker 2 Would we expect to see sprinklers in a lot of type one and type two structures? Yes. But in those type two structures, what doesn’t work well for us is, you know, if you were to look up, even here, the residential environment has smooth surfaces. They have smooth walls, drywall, they’re smooth ceilings. So our nozzles are really good at distributing that water out and cooling those surfaces.
00:19:40:24 – 00:19:59:21 Speaker 2 If you think back to like a type two building. So go to the grocery store, look up right. We see the roof. We see the we see the metal, trusses, the bar. Joyce. That is not a smooth surface. So when we think of that, you know, maybe that based on that occupancy and combining all those effects, it’s sprinkler.
00:19:59:23 – 00:20:26:16 Speaker 2 We have that different construction up top. Maybe now we’re focused on our lateral or horizontal movement. Right. Know products on shelves bring across. Yes. So sprinklers hopefully that are keeping that in check. So it’s not just being you know, always doing something for the sake of doing it. We take into consideration the way the building was built and what is being used for, because that’s going to affect how we ultimately get in, in flow water, to some extent.
00:20:26:16 – 00:20:41:14 Speaker 1 So, what’s an example from your career of when you had to break out the big guns and you had to go with the biggest monitor you got, you got to make sure you got the right supply. Just tell me. Yes, the diesel side of things. Wonderful.

00:20:41:17 – 00:20:59:03 Speaker 2 Yes. So we had a scenario. This is, probably 20 years ago. Of course, Murphy’s Law. It’s either the hottest day or coldest day of the year. This was the hottest, most humid day of the year. Super strong winds. And there were three very large homes, one in the center under construction and then two on either side of it.
00:20:59:03 – 00:21:18:20 Speaker 2 And these are large houses, probably the neighborhood of 7000ft², roughly, but is just one of those things that didn’t take long. We showed up on scene. All three were fully involved. So like that in hydrant loop. So now you got to be really careful with how much water you’re flowing. Where are you flowing it? Where do you start?
00:21:18:23 – 00:21:23:22 Speaker 2 So that was that was probably the most difficult, in terms of water.
00:21:23:25 – 00:21:26:18 Speaker 1 You had one hydrant and you had to put out three houses.
00:21:26:22 – 00:21:45:12 Speaker 2 So we ended up getting, another good hydrant down the street kind of thing. But it was basically back to apparatus positioning, the way those vehicles parked at the beginning, it had a big impact on how we could use them long term. So that was a that was a really interesting one because we’ve learned a lot from those types of incidents.
00:21:45:12 – 00:21:59:02 Speaker 2 We’ve learned a lot from, you know, even the idea of like big fire, big water, we know a lot more about that now than we did then. So that that particular fire was a good one for the the deck gun.
00:21:59:04 – 00:21:59:28 Speaker 1 Okay kind.
00:21:59:28 – 00:22:00:15 Speaker 2 Of thing.
00:22:00:17 – 00:22:02:24 Speaker 1 Did you use deck guns?
00:22:02:27 – 00:22:28:15 Speaker 2 We, we use deck guns there and ultimately elevated master streams. So we, we have used the portable ground monitors, you know, like BlitzFire as an example. But it’s back to how do we do that appropriately. Right. So if we’re just flowing water in through a window on this horizontal plane, we might not be getting that water even close to where it needs to go.
00:22:28:17 – 00:22:49:26 Speaker 2 So even like the portable ground monitor using it, taking advantage of how it’s built, we can get it close. We can dial that up back to steeps, ready, steady and straight. And now we can, you know, again, use that to coat and cool surfaces. And we’ve also found a lot of scenarios is it’s really about, again getting the right water in the right place at the right time.
00:22:49:29 – 00:23:11:16 Speaker 2 So even if we’re really quick with our like hand lines, we can do a lot of, of good, by getting that, that mobile line in place quickly. But yeah, the, the deck gun stuff is impressive. We’ve had a number of instances where that was the only choice. But those are impressive calls, obviously.
00:23:11:17 – 00:23:19:00 Speaker 1 So hundred all three houses catch fire in the Baltic. Did they very close together?
00:23:19:07 – 00:23:36:27 Speaker 2 So they’re fairly close together. And I, I don’t know honestly what caused that particular incident. Yeah, I know it wasn’t. I know it wasn’t a suspicious fire in any way, shape or form. I think it had more to do with the house under construction and maybe something, you know, being left on or whatever the case is, but I don’t.
00:23:36:29 – 00:23:46:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. And it was again with the, with the winds the way they were that day, you know, slightly delayed notification. It didn’t take long for that to be such a big incident.
00:23:46:22 – 00:23:52:15 Speaker 1 So, you’ve been awesome. Your voice is evidence of how hard you’ve worked. History.
00:23:52:17 – 00:23:55:02 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I’m trying to project. I’m trying to project.
00:23:55:02 – 00:24:03:29 Speaker 1 Sounds good. Last thing I want to ask you about is, you know, Officer Wright is, you know, as rebranded transitional tag to exterior water.
00:24:04:02 – 00:24:04:22 Speaker 2 Yes.
00:24:04:24 – 00:24:12:08 Speaker 1 Okay. Attack. Yeah. Just tell me your thoughts on wonder. What’s the biggest misconception about you?
00:24:12:10 – 00:24:42:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I love that has been renamed because now it’s. What are you doing and where are you doing it? So exterior fire controller and interior fire control. Is it a door initiated search or a window initiated search. Right. So that’s that’s kind of what we’re the the concept behind that. I think the biggest misconception behind that the that what was called transitional attack and became, you know, hit it hard from the yard or whatever it was, is that it was very passive by nature.
00:24:42:19 – 00:25:02:05 Speaker 2 And I think the concept is if we were to talk about what aggressive looks like in in my world, what aggressive looks like is people getting off a truck with a purpose and being as fast and professional as possible. That goes for our water application. It goes for forcible entry, it goes for search. So how does that all get pieced together?
00:25:02:08 – 00:25:22:09 Speaker 2 And that’s really what we do. We we run a lot of time to task drills for surviving time to task. So if somebody is is forcing a door, we have somebody masking up and we have somebody flowing water. So we don’t want to build in this, this two, three, four minute delay. If there’s an opportunity to to put water where it needs to go, we’re going to do it.
00:25:22:12 – 00:25:43:03 Speaker 2 And again, the biggest reason we’re doing it is for the people that may be inside of that structure. And I think that gets back to the misconception of you can’t flow water from the outside to the inside if there’s somebody in there. And that’s not true. So as long as we’re following those rules, a straight stream, steep, steady, that’s that, that is not going to happen.
00:25:43:05 – 00:26:03:28 Speaker 2 We’re minimizing entrainment. We’re maximizing water distribution in surface cooling. So that’s you can flow water from the outside of the inside and still be aggressive and still be quick. We’re not talking about posting this person up on the lawn chair for 30 minutes. We’re talking about, you know, potentially as little as 15 to 30s of water application.
00:26:04:01 – 00:26:13:27 Speaker 2 And if we can do it appropriately, it’s only going to be better for the property we’re there to protect and the people that we’re there to save. So that’s.
00:26:14:00 – 00:26:20:14 Speaker 1 Daniel. Jesse, you are a champ. You’ve been talking for the last year. You got here on Sunday I think so, yes, Friday.
00:26:20:14 – 00:26:21:13 Speaker 2 And yes.
00:26:21:16 – 00:26:32:21 Speaker 1 100% effort. And we’re so thrilled that you chose to come by and thank you. I can’t thank you enough. Is there anything that you were hoping to talk about today that you didn’t we didn’t get a chance to cover?
00:26:32:25 – 00:26:56:13 Speaker 2 No, I really appreciate it. My only advice would be, you know, getting back to whatever your organization uses, just be good at using it. It’s simple stuff. It’s simple stuff. And what that the choreographing of those first two minutes looks like has a big impact. Last thing this would be the wisdom I’d have is I sat through one of the classes this week by Keith Stakes, and it was the residential fire growing playbook.
00:26:56:15 – 00:27:20:06 Speaker 2 There is no greater common denominator for the speed of transition. We say is the enemy of regrowth. So we flow water from the outside to get to the inside. We don’t want these gaps. There is no bigger predictor of success in those scenarios. The classes they took everything height, weight, age, seniority, all of those things. The number one predictor of success was when was the last time you trained on that skill.
00:27:20:09 – 00:27:33:01 Speaker 2 So that is a takeaway. We can’t let these big gaps go, to doing basic training, flowing water, forcing doors, putting our masks on. Those are those are perishable skills. We need to keep them going.
00:27:33:04 – 00:27:42:16 Speaker 1 And somebody get this guy a beer. Yeah. You know, serves it. And, I really hope we get a chance to come visit you in Northville. Yeah. See what you’re doing in metro Detroit.
00:27:42:18 – 00:27:44:01 Speaker 2 Love to have you guys. Thank you so much.
00:27:44:07 – 00:27:45:01 Speaker 1 Thanks so much, Jesse.
00:27:45:05 – 00:27:45:27 Speaker 2 Thanks.
00:27:45:27 – 00:27:53:27 Unknown Curious to learn more about TFD nozzles? Check out the new Sortable Nozzle page at Ft.com. Slash shop.